Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/20/1998 08:30 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
             HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                           
  April 20, 1998                                                               
                    8:30 A.M.                                                  
                                                                               
TAPE HFC 98 - 117, Side 1.                                                     
TAPE HFC 98 - 117, Side 2.                                                     
TAPE HFC 98 - 118, Side 1.                                                     
                                                                               
CALL TO ORDER                                                                  
                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault called the House Finance Committee                         
meeting to order at 8:30 A.M.                                                  
                                                                               
PRESENT                                                                        
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley   Representative Kelly                                         
Co-Chair Therriault   Representative Kohring                                   
Representative J. Davies  Representative Martin                                
Representative G. Davis  Representative Moses                                  
Representative Foster  Representative Mulder                                   
Representative Grussendorf                                                     
                                                                               
ALSO PRESENT                                                                   
                                                                               
Representative Eric Croft; Representative Con Bunde;                           
Representative Ethan Berkowitz; Senator Gary Wilken;                           
Senator Randy Phillips; Scott Brandt-Erichsen, Borough                         
Attorney, Ketchikan Gateway Borough, Ketchikan; Don                            
Bullock, Legislative Liaison, Ketchikan Gateway Borough,                       
Ketchikan; Rick Cross, Deputy Commissioner, Department of                      
Education; Eddy Jeans, Manager, School Finance Section,                        
Education Support System, Department of Education; Steve                       
Van Sant, (Testified via Teleconference), State Assessor,                      
Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance, Department                      
of Community and Regional Affairs, Anchorage.                                  
                                                                               
SUMMARY                                                                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
SB 36 An Act relating to transportation of public                              
school students; relating to school construction                               
grants; relating to the public school foundation                               
program and to local aid for education; and                                    
providing for an effective date.                                               
                                                                               
 SB 36 was HELD in Committee for further                                       
consideration.                                                                 
SENATE BILL NO. 36                                                             
                                                                               
"An Act relating to transportation of public school                            
students; relating to school construction grants;                              
relating to the public school foundation program and                           
to local aid for education; and providing for an                               
effective date."                                                               
                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault noted that the meeting would consist of                    
presentation addressing full and true value determinations                     
and the school size factor.  He advised that there are a                       
number of very complicated issues associated with this                         
concern.                                                                       
                                                                               
SCOTT BRANDT-ERICHSEN, BOROUGH ATTORNEY, KETCHIKAN GATEWAY                     
BOROUGH, KETCHIKAN, presented information regarding the                        
State's revenues from oil and gas property taxes.  [Copy on                    
File].  He noted that the Ketchikan Gateway Borough School                     
District will be severely impacted by the current school                       
funding formula.  This issue is about all districts who are                    
inequitably funded under the current program.  Juneau,                         
Sitka, Kenai and Ketchikan are funded the maximum allowed                      
by law and yet they must cut programs and services as                          
inflation reduces the buying power of that funding ceiling.                    
                                                                               
The proposed legislation addresses the rural districts that                    
do not have a significant tax base.  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen                       
pointed out that districts like the Northwest Arctic                           
Borough has more students than North Slope Borough but has                     
a per capita income so low that it would take a person                         
almost three year's total income to earn enough to pay one                     
year worth of the per capita property taxes collected by                       
the North Slope Borough.  Every community which has seen                       
reduced municipal assistance and revenue sharing and every                     
community which is concerned about the level of                                
transitional funding available for SB 36, has a vested                         
interest in seeing that the State gets every dollar of                         
revenue to which it is entitled.  That will allow the                          
communities who rely upon transfer payments from the State                     
not to have to face cuts or inequitable levels of funding                      
because it has always been done that way.                                      
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen commented that any potential increase                      
in State revenue, which could make funds available to                          
restore educational equity, is an option worth considering.                    
The Ketchikan Gateway Borough proposes to increase                             
revenues; specifically the State's share of oil and gas                        
property tax.  The relationship between the tax and                            
potential fund sources came to light during a Senate                           
hearing at which time it became obvious that the North                         
Slope Borough appeared to be working off of two widely                         
different tax base values; one approximately $2 billion                        
dollars and the other $12 billion dollars.  The apparent                       
conflict came to the attention of Don Bullock who then                         
worked for the State of Alaska but now works as a                              
legislative liaison for the Ketchikan Gateway Borough.  He                     
has done extensive research into the history around this                       
concern and application of the oil and gas property tax.                       
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen provided a history of the issue.  In an                    
effort to avoid huge disparities in wealth between                             
municipalities and to use the proceeds from the development                    
of natural resources owned by all residents for the benefit                    
of all residents, the Legislature in 1973, established a                       
state property tax on oil and gas properties of 20 mills.                      
                                                                               
At that time, the Senate Committee on Community and                            
Regional Affairs expressed its concern over fabulously rich                    
communities which have oil and gas development adjacent to                     
poor communities which do not.  Through the State level tax                    
and a specifically limited delegation of authority to                          
municipalities to tax only part of the oil and gas                             
property, the Legislature sought to prevent such                               
disparities, particularly where resources creating the                         
wealth belong to the people of the entire State.  Two types                    
of limits were selected:                                                       
                                                                               
? On the total amount of revenue per resident which                            
could be raised, and                                                           
? The other on the portion of oil and gas property                             
which the local communities would have the                                     
jurisdiction to tax.                                                           
                                                                               
Each year, each community must select one of these two                         
calculated methods by February 1st of that year.                               
                                                                               
The Senate Committee recognized that allowing communities                      
to tax was the same as if the State levied the tax itself                      
and then appropriated the funds to the local government for                    
its purposes.  The Committee noted that the State                              
Legislature should not vote to appropriate $3000 dollars                       
per person to Fort Yukon while voting State per person                         
revenue sharing in the amount of $25 for Koyakuk.  Such a                      
result would be unfair and unconscionable.                                     
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen remarked that twenty-five years later,                     
the result, which the Senate in 1973 called unfair and                         
unconscionable, is exactly what exists in Alaska.  He                          
claimed that the North Slope Borough and Valdez are "rich"                     
while their neighbors are "poor", and that the State's                         
failure to properly implement the protections that the                         
Legislature enacted in 1973 is the chief cause.  According                     
to the 1997 Alaska Taxable, the value of all oil and gas                       
properties in the State as of January 1, 1997 was fourteen                     
billion six hundred twenty-three million four hundred                          
thirty-six thousand and two hundred ten dollars                                
($14,623,436,210.00).  At a tax rate of 20 mills, that                         
could generate a State tax in the amount of approximately                      
$292,470,000 dollars.                                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen continued, the State does not receive                      
all this revenue.  At the time AS 43.56 was enacted, the                       
Legislature realized that there would also be some impacts                     
from oil and gas development on local municipalities.  The                     
State tax was imposed because of the strong belief that oil                    
and gas resources belong to all Alaskans and when developed                    
should benefit everyone.  In drafting the legislation, a                       
compromise was struck between maximizing the revenue from                      
the tax for needs throughout Alaska and ensuring local                         
governments had the revenues to meet local impacts.                            
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen explained that the limitation amount                       
was a calculated number and that by taking the population                      
as determined by the Department of Community and Regional                      
Affairs (DCRA), multiplying that by $1500 would provide the                    
number.  For the North Slope, the calculated number would                      
be $19,407,000 and for Valdez, the amount would be                             
$6,381,000.  The pro-ration of value limitation is also a                      
calculated number.  DCRA is responsible for designating the                    
portion of the oil and gas property tax base which may be                      
subject to the municipal tax, AS 43.56.101(c).  The State                      
assessor provides the calculation each year in the Alaska                      
Taxable.                                                                       
                                                                               
Each municipality must decide by February 1st of each year                     
which method it will use.  Over the years, there have been                     
some disputes about how these limitations are applied.                         
                                                                               
In a 1978 Alaska Supreme Court case, there was a judgement                     
regarding how the credit against the State mill levy would                     
apply.  The case also addressed the impact of AS 29.45.100,                    
which waives the statewide 30 mill tax rate limit and the                      
$1500 per resident amount limit as they apply to taxes                         
needed to pay debt service.                                                    
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen continued, the Court implicated that                       
taxes for bonds might exceed the 30-mill limit.  It also                       
held that this credit applies on a statewide basis.  Thus,                     
a municipal levy, which exceeds 20 mills, will create a                        
credit for the taxpayer which could be applied against                         
state taxes on oil and gas property the taxpayer owns                          
elsewhere in the State.                                                        
                                                                               
The debt service exception in AS 29.45.100 stipulates that                     
taxes to pay bonds may be levied without limitation as to                      
rate or amount.  The term "rate" refers to the mill rate.                      
The mill rate limitation referred to in AS 29.45.090(a) is                     
30 mills.  The amount limitation refers to the total                           
revenue cap and is $1500 dollars per year per resident.                        
                                                                               
He emphasized that it is important to remember in regard to                    
the debt limitation, that there is not a "carte blanche"                       
authority to tax at will.                                                      
                                                                               
? First the debt limitation statute has been on the                            
books since 1960.  Since 1960, the same phrase                                 
has remained unchanged:  "Without limitation as                                
to rate or amount".  That was in place long                                    
before there was any statute relating to taxation                              
of oil and gas property, and long before the                                   
concept of apportioning shares of the oil and gas                              
property tax base was used.                                                    
? Stepping back and looking at the concept of the                              
$1500 per resident limit and the pro-ration of                                 
value limit, one realizes that if reading AS                                   
29.45.100 as providing an exception to pro-                                    
ration, then the per person limit has no meaning                               
once the statewide per person assessed value                                   
exceeds $22,222.  The $1500 per person limit is                                
the same as 30 mills per person on a $50,000                                   
assessed value.  If the statewide per person                                   
assessed value exceeds $22,222 dollars, and the                                
method applied by the North Slope was used, then                               
the pro-ration value method will always give the                               
local government more money without any increase                               
in the mill rate.  It is unreasonable and                                      
contrary to the statutes to eviscerate the $1500                               
per person limit in that manner.                                               
? The North Slope method repeals the $1500 limit in                            
AS 29.45.080(b).                                                               
                                                                               
At the same time as the Court was looking at the bond                          
payment limit, the Department of Revenue responded to a                        
question on the prorated value calculation.  In a March 6,                     
1978 letter to the North Slope Borough by the Department of                    
Revenue, a method was established for calculating the                          
prorated value under AS 29.45.080(c).  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen                     
pointed out that letter contained a couple of errors.  It                      
erroneously prorated the non-oil and gas property.  The                        
method nullified the $1500 limit.  The ratio of local                          
property and oil and gas property ends up the same under                       
both methods.  The local property is 2.42% of the total                        
assessed value.  Thus, under the $1500 per person method,                      
the local property bears only 2.42% of that cost.                              
                                                                               
Under the pro-ration of value method, you prorate both the                     
local and the oil and gas property, then the ratio of 2.42%                    
is preserved and even though the mill rate may increase,                       
the true dollar tax burden stays the same, only the amount                     
ceiling of $1500 per person is removed.                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen pointed out that looking at the statute                    
being interpreted here, the error is clear and that AS                         
29.45.080(c) contains the key phrase.  The statue says that                    
a municipality can levy and collect a tax on the full and                      
true value of "that portion of taxable property taxable                        
under oil and gas property as assessed by the Department of                    
Revenue which"; the second clause "when combined with the                      
value of the property otherwise taxable by the                                 
municipality" would not exceed the limit.  Thus, the                           
statute calls for prorating the value of the oil and gas                       
property only, not houses and commercial buildings.                            
                                                                               
Despite the error, the 1978 letter is helpful in explaining                    
pro-ration value.  Putting the 1998 numbers in this format                     
for the North Slope Borough demonstrates that the North                        
Slope Borough tax base is limited to taxing 18.5% of that                      
full and true value of oil and gas property in the Borough                     
if it elects the prorated value method.                                        
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen commented that two other Supreme Court                     
cases addressed the oil and gas property tax, but are not                      
as significant in regard to these issues.  A 1986 decision                     
upheld the method used to calculate population.  The North                     
Slope Borough population used in the formula is 12,938                         
people, whereas, the actual Borough population is listed as                    
9,189, on Page 17 in the 1997 Alaska Taxable.  That number                     
includes an adjustment counting remote site workers whose                      
primary residence is elsewhere.  The higher population                         
figure benefits the North Slope Borough because it                             
increases the $1500 per person amount.                                         
                                                                               
In 1990, an effort was rejected by Valdez to set up a                          
special taxing district comprised of oil and gas property                      
which amounted to how the oil and gas property tax base got                    
converted to revenues.  The calculation in the Alaska                          
Taxable does not follow the statutes on that point.  When                      
the assessor calculates the impact of the mill levy, he                        
overlooks the fact that the Borough elects the prorated                        
value method.  Instead of using the tax base permitted                         
under AS 29.45.080(c) and AS 43.56.010(c), he has been                         
using the entire assessed value for the Borough.  In                           
effect, this switched methods without reverting to the                         
total tax limitation amount of $1500 per person.                               
                                                                               
Mr. Brandt-Erichsen summarized that in order for the North                     
Slope Borough to reach the entire assessed value, they                         
would need to use the $1500 per person method.  If they                        
elect the prorated value method, then their tax base is                        
only 18.5% of oil and gas property, which would amount to                      
about $2,167,000,000 dollars for that area.  This error                        
reduces revenues due the State by over $43 million dollars                     
per year under the $1500 method or over $18 million per                        
year under the value method.                                                   
                                                                               
Representative Foster expressed frustration with the                           
complexity of Mr. Brant-Erichsen's testimony.  Co-Chair                        
Therriault acknowledged that this issue is complicated,                        
although, noted that it is important to understand the                         
issue and how it applies to the foundation formula.                            
                                                                               
In response to Representative Foster, Mr. Brandt-Erichsen                      
stressed that funds which the State is missing, should be                      
going into the general fund.  That money could be used for                     
numerous projects such as increased municipal revenue                          
sharing, etc.  He advised that this is a State money source                    
which the State has not been collecting.                                       
                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf inquired if the Department of                       
Law or the Department of Revenue had previewed this                            
information packet before it was distributed to Committee                      
members.                                                                       
                                                                               
DON BULLOCK, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, KETCHIKAN GATEWAY                            
BOROUGH, KETCHIKAN, replied that the issue has come up many                    
times in previous years and there has not yet been a                           
regulation adopted.  The Administration has not looked at                      
this particular proposal.                                                      
                                                                               
(Tape Change HFC 98- 117, Side 2).                                             
                                                                               
STEVE VAN SANT, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), STATE                          
ASSESSOR, DIVISION OF MUNICIPAL AND REGIONAL ASSISTANCE,                       
DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS, spoke to the                     
method used to establish the taxable base, and the                             
selection method chosen for this taxable year.                                 
                                                                               
Each community makes their payment to the Department of                        
Revenue, with a choice of two methods.  He added that                          
concerns raised by Mr. Brandt-Erichsen had also been raised                    
in 1989 at which time the Senate appointed a research                          
committee.  They found that the present system was                             
reasonable for the structure of municipal finance in the                       
State.  Although, the Committee believed that the                              
interpretation was ambiguous and advised that it be                            
clarified through adopted regulations.  Mr. Van Sant                           
emphasized the complexity of this issue when addressing                        
bond and revenue sharing.                                                      
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley pointed out with the legislation in the                        
House Finance Committee, there has been much discussion                        
regarding the actual impact.  Depending on which valuation                     
method is used, the Department has run numbers specifying                      
various amounts of contribution to the North Slope Borough                     
(NSB).                                                                         
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley asked Mr. Van Sant if he thought the                           
assessed value should be $2 or $12 billion dollars.  Mr.                       
Van Sant replied that DCRA has taken an official position                      
in which they calculated on the $2 billion dollars, but in                     
lieu of education's Title 14 the Department continues to                       
use $12 billion dollar figure.  Co-Chair Hanley asked for                      
clarification if the NSB would then pay all of its own                         
education costs at that level.  Mr. Van Sant replied that                      
under that scenario, the North Slope would be responsible                      
for paying the entirety of education.                                          
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley asked which method the North Slope Borough                     
has currently chosen.  Mr. Van Sant replied that no                            
municipality had used the $1500 dollar cap because it                          
yields a lesser revenue number. NSB and Valdez will                            
continue to use subsection (c), 225%.  Co-Chair Hanley                         
interjected that was the $2 billion dollar position.  He                       
questioned if the mill rate would be larger in order to pay                    
for that operating budget and how that difference would be                     
reconciled.  Mr. Van Sant explained that the $2 billion                        
dollar level would be used for the operating budget,                           
whereas, for the revenue sharing and bond indebtedness,                        
they choose the $12 billion dollar level.  In reconciling                      
that, the State has continued using the same $12 billion                       
dollar level, the Department of Education for school                           
allocation.                                                                    
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley understood that the debt service would use                     
the $12 billion dollar level and that the school would come                    
within the operating budget portion.  Mr. Van Sant                             
clarified that the operating budget was limited to the $2                      
billion dollar cap and that the total mill rate is                             
calculated into the $12 billion dollar level.  When revenue                    
sharing is taken advantage of, the $12 billion dollar level                    
is also used.  Mr. Van Sant pointed out that a part of                         
Title 14 had been written to help accommodate this concern.                    
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley pointed out that a complicated $2 billion                      
dollar formula is available although nothing is being                          
applied to it at this time.  He questioned if there was any                    
calculation which truly utilizes the $2 billion dollar                         
figure.  Mr. Van Sant explained that the $2 billion dollar                     
figure was used when determining the cap in operating                          
revenues.  That is the per capita value of $74 thousand                        
dollars times 225% of the population which provides the                        
assessed value limit for operating funds.  The 30 mills are                    
multiplied, providing the total statutory limit for the                        
operating budget.                                                              
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley asked what the NSB mill rate is.  Mr. Van                      
Sant replied that the effective overall rate would be                          
calculated on the total $12 billion dollars, which has                         
dropped them back down to 5.12 mills in FY98.  He stressed                     
that this is "only" the effective mill rates in regard to                      
the $12 billion dollars.  Co-Chair Hanley inquired the mill                    
rate written in North Slope Borough ordinance.  Mr. Van                        
Sant thought that it was 18.51% including operating and                        
debt service.                                                                  
                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault asked if there was anything written in                     
statute which would stipulate that maximum tax could be                        
established under one method and then switching and                            
assessing using a different method.  Mr. Van Sant explained                    
that the 225% was capped; the maximum revenue, which could                     
be collected from that, would be $65 million dollars.  Co-                     
Chair Therriault asked if there was any correspondence with                    
the Department of Law or the Department of Revenue,                            
clarifying that section of statute.  Mr. Van Sant replied                      
that he was not aware of any and agreed that if the statute                    
is changed, it should be changed through legislation and                       
not by regulation.                                                             
                                                                               
Mr. Bullock added that AS 43.56.030 specifically addresses                     
the grant of the municipality to tax oil and gas property.                     
A municipality may levy and collect taxes on taxable                           
property only by using one of the methods established in                       
Section (b) or (c).  Each area is responsible for choosing                     
one of these methods.                                                          
                                                                               
Representative J. Davies asked for clarification of the                        
case code.  Mr. Bullock explained that before 1973, there                      
were no restrictions on what municipalities could tax.  In                     
1973, Governor Egan recognized that oil and gas resources                      
belonged to all people in Alaska and desired that revenue                      
generated from development of these resources be shared                        
effectively.  At the same time, the Legislature and                            
Governor realized that there would be local impacts, at                        
which time the next tax base was established, separate from                    
the local assessment.                                                          
                                                                               
Mr. Bullock noted that this case looks at the relationship                     
between how a municipality can tax oil and gas property and                    
what the amount of oil and gas property is that can go to                      
the municipality.  The municipality makes the first choice.                    
Mr. Bullock believed that the best choice would be the (b)                     
method because that method spreads the revenue needs over                      
the entire tax base.  The $1500 per person method is                           
insufficient, and that they can not use the (b) method                         
which resulted from that court decision.  When a                               
municipality makes a choice, that becomes their tax base                       
and the only way to receive the full tax base would be to                      
choose that option.  The North Slope Borough is not doing                      
that.  Representative J. Davies asked for a copy of the                        
decision made by the Supreme Court case asserting that                         
decision.                                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Mulder pointed out that decision had been                       
made 20 years ago and that other school districts are being                    
disenfranchised because of this inequity.  Mr. Brandt-                         
Erichsen suggested that this could be better understood                        
when analyzing who is doing the paying and who is likely to                    
benefit if it is fixed.  The oil companies are going to pay                    
20 mills regardless of the policy.  They have no vested                        
interest in complaining.  He added that change between the                     
local community and the State has no affect on what they                       
pay.  The local community has a vested interest in                             
continuing to do it this way.  The State will be the entity                    
to gain money by doing it the correct way.  There are                          
individuals who want the status quo to continue.  This                         
question was not raised until 1989, when that State                            
assessor wrote a report pointing out the inequity of the                       
situation.                                                                     
                                                                               
Representative Mulder inquired the amount which the State                      
has been shorted over the years.  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen                          
replied that determination would depend on the method used.                    
If the NSB were to shift to the $1500 dollar per person                        
method, the State lose would be $43 million dollars per                        
year.  If they used the other scenario, the State would                        
have lost approximately $18 million dollars per year since                     
1978.  Co-Chair Therriault interjected in regard to the                        
interaction between the municipalities and the Department                      
of Revenue, the State does not have the authority to go                        
back and recoup money, although, from this point forward, a                    
clarification should be made.                                                  
                                                                               
Representative Kelly asked the mechanism in which the State                    
lost money.  Mr. Brandt-Erichsen explained that the credit                     
was greater; if a local community receives a higher amount,                    
the State's share would be smaller.                                            
                                                                               
Representative Foster compared the Ketchikan school                            
allocations to those received in the village areas.  He                        
pointed out that most of the 30 village schools in his                         
district do not have a school nurse, art or music program                      
or librarians.  He took offense that Ketchikan was                             
attempting to get greater education funding at the expense                     
of the rural school districts.  Representative Kelly asked                     
that the presentation provided by Mr. Brandt-Erichsen be                       
consolidated and written in understandable language for the                    
Committee's information.                                                       
                                                                               
(Tape Change HFC 98- 118, Side 1).                                             
                                                                               
RICK CROSS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION,                      
spoke to the school size concern.  He provided the                             
Committee with a handout "Alaska Department of Education -                     
Foundation Program".  [Copy on File].  He stated that this                     
chart would indicate how the State has applied the schools                     
to the table listed in the bill.                                               
                                                                               
Mr. Cross referenced Page 6, Lines 4 -21 of the House HESS                     
version of the bill.  For the purposes of calculating a                        
school's Adjusted Daily Membership (ADM) to determine State                    
aid, the ADM of each school in a district shall be computed                    
by applying such a formula.  The formula is indicated in                       
that section of the bill.  He pointed out that this portion                    
of the bill comes directly from the McDowell study and                         
represents the funding shift in the communities current                        
formula.                                                                       
                                                                               
Mr. Cross pointed out that the charts list the schools and                     
their districts.  He noted that this is important in                           
understanding how many funding communities are in a                            
district to understand the significant reallocation of                         
funds.                                                                         
                                                                               
To the Department of Education, there has been a request to                    
define what a "school" is.  He continued, in a large school                    
district with 800 students or more, it is easier to define                     
a school.  Problems arise when a small program operated by                     
the school district, decides to be independent or grouped                      
together with the rest of that school district.  Mr. Cross                     
admitted that situation could be addressed by the school                       
district providing a definition, clarifying what goes                          
through the table and what does not.  Additional problems                      
arise in defining in the smaller to middle-size communities                    
throughout the State. The purpose of the table is not to                       
determine the fixed operating school costs.  That                              
information should be covered in the district cost factor.                     
The chart does take into consideration the personnel costs                     
associated with the operation of the schools.                                  
                                                                               
Mr. Cross advised that the current formula does not address                    
those communities that have one school and which attempts                      
to serve all of an area's education population needs.  The                     
question returns to how to define a school in order that                       
the above concern be fixed.  He directed that a definition                     
of "school" for those communities below 750 would not be                       
the place to start.  A new model must be created so that                       
two similar communities with separate needs are treated                        
differently.                                                                   
                                                                               
Mr. Cross recommended that the Legislature analyze how                         
schools are applied on the referenced table.  Co-Chair                         
Therriault noted that the bill is attempting to create a                       
formula which addresses the "true" costs of education.  Mr.                    
Cross agreed that there needs to be greater efficiencies.                      
He advised that the table provided in the handout is quite                     
aggressive and believed that this is what is needed,                           
although, the criteria was not applied to real data.                           
Additionally, alternative programs within the school                           
systems need to be defined.  Mr. Cross agreed that the                         
issues surrounding larger communities can be more easily be                    
addressed, whereas, in communities with a student                              
population size around 10, it becomes more complicated to                      
create a definition of "school".                                               
                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault asked if the Department recommends that                    
smaller schools be removed from the current definition and                     
treated differently.  Mr. Cross noted that it has been                         
recommended to treat them as communities with a different                      
education need or perhaps to define those schools in                           
context of their program.                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Martin reminded Committee members when                          
Representative Ron Larson worked long and hard on this                         
issue and had encouraged legislators to reevaluate that                        
information.                                                                   
                                                                               
SB 36 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                         
ADJOURNMENT                                                                    
                                                                               
The meeting adjourned at 10:25 A.M.                                            
H.F.C. 13 4/20/98 a.m.                                                         

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